From: a.geatti@xnet.it
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: R: Gardening
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:54:57 +0100
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Kevin Smith
A: Internet Speedway Fan Club List
Data: domenica 2 novembre 1997 11.14
Oggetto: Re: Gardening
>Peter White wrote:
>
>>Speedway remains an attraction for those addicted to the sport but it
>>is no longer fascinating for the man in the street for a whole lot of
>>reasons [snip]
>
>Pretty good summing up of the state of the sport there. Gardening is
>one of the least of my concerns and not one that your average man in
>the street will get bothered about compared with:
>
>late starts to the meeting
>no passing
>little close racing
>crap presentation
>poor stadium facilities
>long delays before riders come out (Hull are more guilty than most)
>gamesmanship to see who will be last to line up at the tapes
>etc
>etc
>
>Vast room for improvement - a rider digging in the dirt seems to be
>a positive attraction compared to the above!!
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Kevin Smith
>
I must admit that you are right Kevin.
Before speaking about gardening, that can also be improved, there is a lot
of possibility for other improvement especially around Europe. In Britain
the standard of presentation is normally much higher the elsewhere.
Regards. Andrea
From: esvyf@csv.warwick.ac.uk
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Craven Shield Final Details
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:31:21 +0000 (GMT)
Hi all,
Coventry won the Craven Shield comfortably in the end on Friday night.
A terrific atmosphere at Brandon, and for a couple of races it looked like
Kings Lynn might make a fight of it, but Bees took 4 successive 5-1s
from heats 5-8 to make sure of success.
COVENTRY 58 KINGS LYNN 32
B.Andersen 2 3 3 3 3 14 M.Lemon 3 1 1 0 1 6
S.Wilson E 1 2'1 3 7(1) B.Brhel 1 0 E 2 1 4
G.Hancock 2 3 2'3 2' 12(2) S.Wigg 3 0 0 0 3 6
S.Bowes 0 2'3 1 2 8(1) G.Stancl 1 2 2 1 1' 7(1)
J.Jorgensen 3 2'3 3 E 11(1) S.Parker 2 0 E 0 0 2
A.Smith 0 3 1 2'0 6(1) P.Hurry 1'1 1 2 2 7(1)
Highlights:
Ht 2: Stancl got inside Hancock on the second lap, with Hancock re-taking
him on the outside on the last lap. Kings Lynn were 8-4 up on the night,
and their fans getting very excited!
Ht 5: Bowes made fantastic start, with Hancock going round the outside of
Parker and Hurry on the first lap to join him for a 5-1 to put Bees 16-14
up on the night.
Ht 7: Coventry's third 5-1, Wilson fighting from the back to join Andersen
up-front, again against Parker and Hurry.
Ht 8: Another 5-1, Bowes overtaking Brhel. 31-17.
Ht 9: Would have been a 5-1 after Smith overtook Stancl, but his bike
failed on the way to the flag. Still a 4-2 with Jorgensen winning.
Ht10: Bees clinched the Shield as Andersen and Bowes got a 4-2 over
Brhel and Parker.
Ht11: Easy Hancock/Smith 5-1 over Lemon and Stancl.
Ht12: Wigg embarrassed by Wilson, who just moved him over into turn 3.
Ht14: Lemon gated; Hancock rounded him at the end of the lap. Lemon
and Wilson battled for the rest of the race, making contact on a number
of occasions, before Wilson got inside him going into the last lap.
Ht15: Andersen and Jorgensen set for a final 5-1 until Jorgensen's
clutch went - his only defeat of the Craven Shield Final (both legs!)
So Coventry finally win something, and I just hope they can build on
that next season. The team spirit on Friday night was just incredible.
Cheers,
David Rowe, University of Warwick
From: prwhite@ozemail.com.au
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Ivan Mauger Series
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 19:19:15 +1100 (EST)
IVAN MAUGER'S CANADIAN AIRLINES GOLDEN HELMET SERIES
ROUND 7
TOWNSVILLE SHOWGROUND, QUEENSLAND
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 1
POLISH rider Grzegorz Walasek pulled further ahead on points after yet
another good win in Round 7 at Townsville Showground last Saturday night
(November 1).
Walasek took out the four-rider final from Russian Sergei Darkin, Czech
Vaclav Verner and Brisbane-based Team Titman rider Tony Rose.
American Buck Blair crashed with Italian Allesandro Dalle Valle in their
second ride and both took no further part in the meeting.
Canadian Chris Slabon struck engine failure in his first race and also
took no further part in the remainder of the night's competition.
Heat points: Sergei Darkin 14, Grzegorz Walasek 12, Tony Rose 12, Vaclav
Verner 11, Roman Povazhny 10, Paul Stewart 10, Kjell Sola 9, Shane McCabe
9, Richard Wolff 8, Gary Davey 8, Kevin Looby 5, Scott Boyce 4, Jesper
Foldager 3, Allessandro Dalle Valle 2, Buck Blair 1, Chris Slabon 0.
Final: 1. Walasek 2. Darkin 3. Verner 4. Rose..
Meeting points: Walasek 12, Darkin 11, Verner 10, Rose 9, Povazhny 8,
Stewart 7, Sola 6, McCabe 5, Wolff 4, Davey 3, Looby 2, Boyce 1, Foldager
0, Dalle Valle 0, Blair 0, Slabon 0.
PROGRESSIVE SERIES POINTS: Walasek 75, Sola 63, Verner 60, Wolff 52, Slabon
39, Blair 37, Foldager 28, Darkin 23, Rose 21, Boyce 18, Povazhny 17,
Stewart 17.
From: pw396@soton.ac.uk
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Exeter Track
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 09:46:51 +0000 (GMT)
Hi all,
Just thought I would add my bit to the track conditions at
Exeter during the Young Shield. I wasn't actually there for
the Reading match (ill), but from what I heard from my uncle
(who also works on the track), after the top layer was taken
off and put on the inside it took the track staff about four
heats to get the track back to like it was in the first place
by scraping the dirt from the inside back across the track.
We know what's best for our team!!!
For the Long Eaton match I arrived at about 6pm and found the
track to be just like I hoped - deep!! Graham Drury was
moaning like hell, but the only place where extra work was
done was at the tapes, where the Exeter riders reckoned it
was too hard. During the meeting with Exeter not going ahead
by as much as they were hoping to, the tractor came out with
the nails on the back just to make the track just a little
bit deeper. This seemed to make all the difference - as Long
Eaton were stuffed from that point on.
Congratulations must also go to Gary Lobb, not only for his
pass of Martin Dixon, but in the heat where he fell off and
told one of the other track staff who was running to his aid
to '**** off' until the race was stopped. Exeter ended up
with a 3-2 from that heat after Stonehewer fell after hitting
Dixon, and then Coles passed Dixon on the third lap. Much
better than the 5-1 Long Eaton would have had. Nice one Gary
- quick thinking.
Last Thursday was the best team performance I've ever seen, a
brilliant night and a deserved win. What's more, having seen
Exeter away from home a few times, I'm surprised they
only managed the two away wins and six bonus points. The way
they were going most of the season, they deserved a lot
more than that.
More of the same next year will do fine!!
----------------------
Paul Wiktorko
pw396@soton.ac.uk
From: stvmagro@tig.com.au
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Gardening and Putting on a Show
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 09:04:36 +1000
> Subject: Re: Gardening
> From: KDSmith@compuserve.com
> Peter White wrote:
>Speedway remains an attraction for those addicted to the sport but it
> >is no longer fascinating for the man in the street for a whole lot of
> >reasons [snip]
>
> Pretty good summing up of the state of the sport there. Gardening is
> one of the least of my concerns and not one that your average man in
> the street will get bothered about compared with:
>
> late starts to the meeting
> no passing
> little close racing
> crap presentation
> poor stadium facilities
> long delays before riders come out (Hull are more guilty than most)
> gamesmanship to see who will be last to line up at the tapes
> Kevin Smith
No argument here Kevin. Some things (eg: facilities & track prep)
are due to the lack of money coming through the turnstyles.
It's catch 22: Less money coming in, high payments to riders
(for the outrageous costs they outlay), yet in the end, racing
is not so good as when blokes were all using two valve Jawas,
and going a hell of a lot slower.
If a rider passed another, it might take up to a lap - even more.
Nowadays if a pass takes place...don't blink or you'll miss it!
In the 70's perhaps we put up with 'gamesmanship'. Entertaining
racing made up for that because it was a lot easier (and cheaper!)
for riders to buy competitive machinery.
Now, when a bloke streaks down the back straight on lap one,
it's usually time to go buy a beer and a bucket of chips.
Over here in Oz at least we've got speedcars and sprintcars which,
by and large, put on a pretty good show.
Crowds agree.
Of the few bike tracks left, Gosford probably tries hardest by
giving fans handicap racing and the occassional demolition derby.
But then certain PL and EL riders pull out the rug and refuse to ride,
because the promotor simply cant afford the big bucks.
Steve Magro
Sydney Australia
From: K.Meynell@terena.nl
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Speedway Meeting Program and R/R
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 11:06:25 +0100
All,
>From comments received, it appears some people have not been able to get
Rider Replacement to work in the Speedway Meeting Program. The R/R facility
still exists in Version 4.0, but I changed the way it is enabled from the
Beta 4 version onwards.
The change was to remove the need to work out a rider's ranking in the team
before enabling R/R. Now you just enter * (asterisk) after the rider's
average and the program automatically takes care of the rider's ranking.
When the focus is removed from the average box, the box should show R/R.
This will also enable the Team Reserve if applicable (not all meetings have
a Team Reserve).
Of course, R/R is only available in certain meetings (all BPL/BL), but this
is indicated by 'RR' appearing in the status bar at the bottom of the
Programme Editor.
Unfortunately, this has not been helped by a total lack of documentation
(which I'm still working on). Apologies for any confusion.
Regards,
Kevin Meynell
From: metent@globalnet.co.uk
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Re: Race Format, Points Limit, Well Done Exeter
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:23:09 -0000
Paul wrote:
> Promotions or team managers should be able to construct a team as they
seem
> fit, within the guidelines of the BSPA, I do however fear that we could
be
> heading towards teams who are merely clones of each other and not well
> constructed units.
(snip out axample)
> > So what am I getting at you all say, well if, and that is a big IF, the
25
> point heat leaders come in and a 3.00 rider is made compulsary then you
may
> as well get rid of team managers because any art of team building is as
good
> as gone, why can't a team, if it so wishes, fill it's side with 7, 6
point
> riders. Likewise why can't they use 3 10point and 2 3point riders.
I agree entirely. Any restriction on which riders you are allowed to select
is one too many, although to a limited degree I do support the inclusion in
each team of an "AL" rider, subject to suitable definition.
> Here would be my blueprint for Premier League 98
>
> 1/ 7 man teams with a well proven race formula
> (If only because if the customers want it the customers should get it)
>
> 2/ A sensible points limit, how about 45 WITHOUT bonus points
> (Fans don't want to see too many team changes for next year, I've never
seen
> the point of using the CMA for team construction when bonuses do not
count in
> the results)
>
> 3/ Teams use any seven riders they wish provided they are within the
points
> limit, perhaps there could be a rule to demand inclusion of one rider of
an
> average under four with experience of less than 50 league matches.
> (This would give a greater degree of importance to team management)
We're thinking on the same lines, although I would have to get out my
calculator so see whether or not 45 points is right......
>
> 4/ Sensible assessed averages, 2.00 for untried UK riders, 7.00 for
overseas,
> all Elite riders dropping down on at LEAST 8.00. Riders returning from a
> year or two away should be assessed individually by an independant
tribunial.
> (More teams encouraged to use local youngsters on a 2.00 average, very
few
> riders will ride signifacantly above their assessed average) (Mystic
Larry
> predicts that only two "Juniors" will be big time bargains in '98, David
Howe
> will get a 8.00 PL average and Jon Armstrong will hit 6.00)
Broadly I agree again. There aren't enough riders of sufficient quality
available to step-up from the AL and live with a 3.00 average (1997 stats
clearly show this), but the 9.00 assessed average for new foreigners means
that isn't an option either because it's too big a gamble to take. We have
to arrive at a sensible happy medium which gives AL riders a chance, but
does not stifle both the PL and ultimately the EL of new foreign talent.
(Although, if challenged in court, any discrimination against riders from
other EU states could prove expensive for the BSPA).
David Howe should be a wow in the PL. Let's just hope he signs for a club
other than one controlled by a reptile.
IMO Jon Armstrong would do better if he was more organised. The lad can
ride, but when Sheffield have used him as a guest has always turned up at
the last minute and had trouble with his bikes. Hopefully he can overcome
this, otherwise he is going nowhere.
> 5/ Get rid of stupid guest and R/R rules, R/R should be used for the
absence
> of any of the top five, (1 R/R ride each for the riders below and the
rider
> directly above only) Reserves who are absent should be replaced by a
number
> 8 or 9 who are declared by the team on a monthly basis, if each team has
an
> opposite number missing then they should cancel out and a number 8 should
> slot in, guests only used for instances when 2 or more top riders are
out.
> (Minimising guests, giving the punters a team they can identify with week
in
> week (what on earth would Sheffield do!) out as well as allowing AL
riders a
> chance to test the water on the odd occasion, Guests and R/R for reserves
was
> an absolute joke this year.)
Broadly I agree again (pity about the ill-informed dig though).
Whilst all this is fine in theory, what happens though when your team has
two, or three, or four or even five of your top five out through injury or
illness? The plan seems to fall down there a little.
I recall one night this year when I took a team to Arena with FOUR guests -
all covering for certified injury/illness. I had my no. 2 in the averages
and a reserve only - how would the no guests scheme of things cope there?
(We lost 60-30 even with guests!!)
If only one rider is out in the top five, then Paul's suggestion is fine,
but otherwise it's a recipe for uncompetitive matches.
> Will it happen, well you never know, Scotland might win the World Cup
next
> year!
>
Is that pig I see overhead wearing a kilt?
> Well done to Exeter on winning the Young shield, it goes to prove that
nice
> guys sometimes do win and that having a big home track is no excuse for
being
> crap away from home. We must have done something right with the four
major
> trophies being spread around four different teams.
>
Yes, Exeter is run by some of the nicest blokes in the sport. They have had
to suffer persistent sniping from their colleagues at the BSPA who are
jealous of the fact Colin Hill & Co. run speedway as a business and not
just as a rich man's plaything. Doubtless they will have finished the
season with a profit for the 12th season running (The only season(s) Colin
Hill has ever lost money at Exeter is (are) the one(s) when he was in
partnership with Peter Oakes). Well done Exeter - your victory was well
deserved and a victory for the common sense approach.
WEBBO
From: K.Meynell@terena.nl
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Re: Points limit, Guests and R/R
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 12:59:38 +0100
>So what am I getting at you all say, well if, and that is a big IF, the 25
>point heat leaders come in and a 3.00 rider is made compulsary then you may
>as well get rid of team managers because any art of team building is as good
>as gone, why can't a team, if it so wishes, fill it's side with 7, 6 point
>riders. Likewise why can't they use 3 10point and 2 3point riders.
The argument against top heavy teams is that racing tends to be poorer
(accentuates the 'two-races-in-one' syndrome, and of course lower order
riders will constantly be tactically subbed. This said however, I think the
points limit should be kept as simple as possible, with no additional
restrictions on heat leader strength or whatever. If you choose a
reasonable points limit, it should be up to individual promotions to build
their team as they desire. History has shown that top-heavy teams rarely
prosper.
>How too, do you define a 3 point rider, is it a rider with no previous
>Premier experience or do you allow a Grant McDonald or a Krister Marsh in
>there, guys who could loose a team place for the sake of a few tenths of a
>point when they should be certs for a team slot.
Unfortunately, whilst I sympathise with riders being squeezed out of a team
place by a few tenths of an average, you have to draw the line somewhere.
Grading systems have been tried, but even then you got riders just falling
outside a grade boundary. It's just a fact of life that teams will always
be built from the top down, with the lower order riders usually being
chosen because their average happens to fit.
IMO, a more important issue is a stable points limit from year-to-year. Why
can't the points limit stay at the same level each year (say 42-44
excluding bonus points), then everyone knows the score?
>5/ Get rid of stupid guest and R/R rules, R/R should be used for the absence
>of any of the top five, (1 R/R ride each for the riders below and the rider
>directly above only) Reserves who are absent should be replaced by a number
>8 or 9 who are declared by the team on a monthly basis, if each team has an
>opposite number missing then they should cancel out and a number 8 should
>slot in, guests only used for instances when 2 or more top riders are out.
Agreed. It was absolutely farce allowing R/R and Guests for reserves. I
actually disagree with cancelling out because riders of the same status are
not always equal. For example, some No.1's have a 10 point average, whilst
others only have a 7 point average. This seems a little unfair.
On another note, why can't two riders above the missing rider be used for
R/R? A rider has 4 programmed rides, and it would seem more equitable to
have the rides taken by two riders above, and two riders below.
Next season, I would like to see properly contracted AL riders filling
vacant reserve slots. No more non-contracted riders riding for ten
different teams in the same season.
I would also like to see the total abolition of intra-BPL guests. The heat
leaders and second strings should be replaced by guests from the
lower-order of the BEL teams (obviously no riders with a converted average
greater than that of the rider being replaced). The same should apply in
the BEL for lower-order riders, with top BPL riders being used.
Unfortunately, intra-BEL guests would have to kept for the high-order
riders as a BPL guest is unlikely to be an adequate replacement.
Nevertheless, these guests should only be used when two or more heat
leaders are missing.
Regards,
Kevin Meynell
From: dad@anorg.chemie.uni-muenchen.de
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: thanks
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 14:44:28 +0100 (MEZ)
Now that the season is now over I would to thank all those on the list
who posted match reports thoughout the season for keeping this exile well
informed about British speedway. Special thanks to John, Paul(Larry) and
Robin for keeping me up to date with the Scotish speedway scene.
***************************************************************
* David Adam *
* Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitat *
* Institut fur Anorganische Chemie *
* Meiserstrasse 1, *
* D-80333 Phone: 0049 (0)89 5902 248 *
* Munich, Germany FAX: 0049 (0)89 5902 382 *
* *
* E-mail: dad@anorg.chemie.uni-muenchen.de *
***************************************************************
From: LOVEDA@BTLIP38.BT.CO.UK
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Speedway in the British News
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:43:00 -0000
>From The Times:
November 3 1997 SPEEDWAY
Promoters plead for play-offs to remain
BY TONY HOARE
COVENTRY and Exeter delivered surprise results to win
the end-of-season play-off competitions amid overwhelming
calls for the competition to be continued next year.
The Craven Shield for Elite League teams and Young Shield
for the Premier League have faced criticism for causing
fixture congestion in the final month of the campaign, but
matches drew large crowds and are set to stay in 1998.
Both victorious teams beat the league champions on their
way to success, Coventry defeating King's Lynn for the first
time in five matches to win both legs*.
In the Premier League, Exeter took their first big trophy in
14 years. A large crowd packed into the County Ground to
see the Falcons pull back a 12-point deficit against a tired
Long Eaton side in the second leg - the first success for
Colin Hill, their promoter since 1986.
Hill said: "It's fabulous to win something, but these meetings
are bad for the nerves! These play-offs have been brilliant
for us, the atmosphere is always better with a bigger crowd.
It is an excellent way to finish the season."
Graham Drury, the defeated Long Eaton promoter, insisted
the shields - named after Peter Craven and Jack Young,
double world champions from the Fifties and Sixties - have
been successful. He said: "We had our third-best crowd of
the season in our home leg of the final. The play-offs are here
to stay. I will be striving for them to remain."
Cheers,
Dave Love
*For info:
King's Lynn 41 Coventry 49
Coventry 58 King's Lynn 32
Celebrations in Ipswich as well as in Coventry!
From: marcman@argonet.co.uk
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: New Website
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 97 11:58:12
Hi All,
Just to let you know of a new website out there.
Its run by James Hiett(age 13) who rides youth speedway and grasstrack.
The lad has done a very good job with this site and I'm sure he would like to
hear from you with your comments.
Check it out:
Youth speedway and grasstrack:
http://www.speedway.force9.co.uk
speedway@speedway.force9.net
And now, not such a good website,(well thats what the November issue 'THE WEB'
magazine had to say anyway) the BSPA homepage.
""The inside track about UK speedway - how it got started, latest results, team
information and forthcomming fixtures. There were, however, some bugs which
stopped us viewing the pages properly.""
Says it all really - good old BSPA!!!
Regards... Marc.
Home of the Swindon Robins
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/marcman
From: Malcolm_Hooper@jba.co.uk
To: "Internet Speedway Fan Club List"
Subject: Leg trailing
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:19:45 +0000
Someone metioned leg trailing the other day,
Well here is my 2 pence worth !
I have seen Mark Loram and Leigh Lanham over the past few seasons use a leg
trailing style to great effect at Exeter. I seems to be when there is a lot
of dirt and the bike has been laid over further than normal !
I was looking through a pictures (can't read yet) called SNAP !
There is a picture of a guy called Jan Staechmann and he is leg trailing,
either that or he about to slide off !.
Hopefully Jan can explain how and why this method is used by some riders
some of the time.
Regards Malcolm